Wednesday, September 05, 2007

Justice Sedley - Totalitarian

Didn't he used to be a member of the Communist Party ? Looks like you can take the man out of the Party, but it's harder to get the Party out of the man.

The whole population and every UK visitor should be added to the national DNA database, a senior judge has said. Lord Justice Sedley said the current database, which holds DNA from crime suspects and scenes, was "indefensible" because it was unfair and inconsistent.

Why's it unfair ? Because some ethnic minorities are disproportionately represented. Whitey - and the Chinese - and the Jews - and Koreans - and Indians) just doesn't commit enough crime.

Sir Stephen Sedley, who is one of England's most experienced appeal court judges, said: "Where we are at the moment is indefensible. We have a situation where if you happen to have been in the hands of the police then your DNA is on permanent record. If you haven't, it isn't... that's broadly the picture. It means that people who have been arrested but acquitted, some of them because they are innocent, some of them because they are just lucky, all stay on the database. It means where there is ethnic profiling going on disproportionate numbers of ethnic minorities get onto the database. It also means that a great many people who are walking the streets and whose DNA would show them guilty of crimes, go free."

I'm not sure we should be keeping the DNA of those arrested but not convicted, but let it pass. The suggestion that we should all be on the resgister just to keep some minorities company, so to speak, is outrageous. My contempt for this cretin knows no bounds.


UPDATE - I'd spit in his face if I didn't think he'd take a swab.

28 comments:

Bert Rustle said...

Laban wrote "Didn't he used to be a member of the Communist Party?”

Does anybody have a (partial) list of these people previously known as communists?

Public figures are often introduced as “a former member of the extreme far right tiddlywinks team”. I do not recollect seeing many introductions such as “former communist/extreme far left Jack Straw, Stephen Rose, Peter Hitchens ...”; such points are usually only made in passing.

JuliaM said...

"...one of England's most experienced appeal court judges..."

That just about says it all.....

Anonymous said...

I listened to the BBC's mealy-mouthed euphemism that ethnics are "over-represented in the criminal justice system", and therefore it wasn't "fair" that the database isn't universal, with the usual impotent rage.

Precisely the same weasel argument was used to undermine habeas corpus.

Wouldn't suprise me if Smegg is a Commie, par for the course.

LibLabCon have no legitimacy and they should be kicked out, by force if necessary.

How one longs for the firm stamp of stern old Oliver - in booting the Rump Parliament, paragons compared to the present worthless rabble.

Went something along the lines of: "You are no Parliament, I say you are no Parliament - you are drunkards, whoremasters and thieves.....I will put an end to your prating.....you have sat far too long for any good that you might do.....Call them in! Call them in!"

Enter file of musketeers, exit politicos

That's what we need

signed

Gabriel Oak

Anonymous said...

My contempt for this cretin knows no bounds.

Same here. This is outrageous. I agree that keeping DNA of people arrested then subsequently not charged is unsatisfactory, but it would not be difficult I believe to remove them.

The suggestion that we all submit to this tyranny just to appease a minority is beyond the pale. F*ck you Smedley and all the other totalitarian twats especially that wanker Tony McNut job.

JohnM said...

I do not recollect seeing many introductions such as “former communist/extreme far left Jack Straw, Stephen Rose, Peter Hitchens

To be fair, Peter Hitchens is often reminded in public that he used to be a Trotskyist. I suspect the "used to" is significant.

Bert Rustle said...

Lord Justice Sedley was on BBC’s Radio Four this morning See here , ten minutes in. He attributes the preponderance of black males on the database to “ethnic profiling”. He further states that to remove data of those already arrested but not subsequently convicted “would be ridiculous”, citing serial rape cases solved by such data.

Lord Justice Sedley does not state:

What proportion of convicted rapists have previous convictions for sexual offences, or indeed any criminal offence, or who were given short sentences and so released whilst still sexually active

The relative absence of Sikhs, Hindus or Chinese males on the database due to “ethnic profiling”

Why it is that only 40% of black males are on the database compared to 9% of white males (stated by Information Commissioner Richard Thomas in the immediately following interview) when the relative conviction rates of blacks are much higher

Why the wholly disproportionate number of males on the database versus females is due to “sexual profiling”

This is the first time I have heard any member of the judiciary speak politically, as some police chief constables have already done.

Alan G said...

Of course, Lord Justice Sedley already has his details and DNA on the database doesn't he...

Bert Rustle said...

Johnm 8:21 AM wrote “To be fair, Peter Hitchens is often reminded in public that he used to be a Trotskyist. I suspect the "used to" is significant.”

It is not applied fairly. The “BNP Bomber” had reportedly been a member of the Tory party for many times longer than the BNP but he was not reported as the “Tory Terrorist”.

In my opinion this is due to “framing”. The idea is to move the sheep in to the “pen” of a particular opinion by the subtle but not alarming movement of “extreme far right” sheepdogs. It appears to me that the almost total absence of “extreme far left” sheepdogs implies that the legacy media and many bloggers are only concerned that the sheep are kept away from the “extreme far right”.

I would hazard a guess that the more dispersed the sheep are away from anything but the “extreme far right” the better the Ruling Class of one party government (British Prime Minister Gordon Brown recently), one region government (European Union) or one world government (UN and other Tranzis) likes it.

This sort of thing also occurs in the ‘soft’ sciences. To quote:

“... scientists should appeal to non-scientists by presenting their work in a way that conforms to common biases”

“The popular notion of 'spin', while used more broadly, often refers
to the idea of framing.”

See
johnhawks.net for the full non-technical article.

yahooligan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

"Bert Rustle said...
Johnm 8:21 AM wrote “To be fair, Peter Hitchens is often reminded in public that he used to be a Trotskyist. I suspect the "used to" is significant.”

It is not applied fairly. The “BNP Bomber” had reportedly been a member of the Tory party for many times longer than the BNP but he was not reported as the “Tory Terrorist”."

He was hardly a BNP bomber either - they convicted him on the basis that he had the material to make thunderflashes with which he intended to defend his property. The "rocket launchers" he was said to possess disappeared out of the frame once they had served their smearing purpose.

"I would hazard a guess that the more dispersed the sheep are away from anything but the “extreme far right” the better the Ruling Class......... likes it."

True, very true. The left has an insidious influence generally but as far as socialism is concerned they are a busted flush.

The nation-state, based on homogeneity, is a powerful bulwark against divide and rule and exploitation. Parties which staunchly advocate this are therefore beyond the pale as far as the liberal state, in its noxious economic, political and social guises, is concerned.

signed

Gabriel Oak

Bert Rustle said...

Anonymous Gabriel Oak10:18 AM wrote ... The nation-state, based on homogeneity...,.

Richard North at EUReferendum uses the term “demos”. To quote explain the meaning of the word demos and then point out that there is no European demos, without which electing an EU president would be a meaningless charade. Is this what you mean? Or do you implicitly have in mind that two randomly chosen indigenous Englishmen compared to a randomly chosen African Bantu are as closely related as grandparent and grandchild versus a random indigenous individual to a random indigenous stranger? This topic and much else is covered in Frank Salter’s On Genetic Interests: Family, Ethnicity, and Humanity in an Age of Mass Migration.

Not an easy read. However, a quote from the review by Professor J P Rushton here gives the general idea:

The need to identify with others like oneself, and to be with one's own kind, is a major component of human nature and so ethnic identity is a powerful force in human affairs. Group members have "ties of blood" that make them "special" and different from outsiders. This is why patriotism is almost always seen as a virtue and an extension of family loyalty. It also explains why ethnic remarks so easily become "fighting words." Culture builds on genetic similarity and is bound together by it. Patriotism is preached in kinship terms. Nations are the "motherland" or the "fatherland" and unions and churches refer to their members as "brothers" and "sisters."

Salter draws out the implications, however politically incorrect, for immigration policies, citizenship law, affirmative action, multiculturalism, and other ways of allocating resources within and between states. There are constraints on how much diversity can be appreciated.

Anonymous said...

"Britain also has by far the largest criminal DNA database in the world – 50 times the size of the French equivalent.

When Labour took office in 1997, it held only 700,000 samples. By next year, it will hold the samples of some 4.2 million people – seven per cent of the population – and is growing by about half a million a year.

The next largest DNA database in the EU is in Austria, where less than one per cent of the population is included. Coverage in Germany is half of that." Telegraph

Bloody hell!

So that's a society with loads of "cohesion" then! "Paradise of diversity" - marvellous, incomparably wonderful stuff.

mister scruff said...

Sorry to invoke Godwin's Law but a DNA database of the entire population would have delighted the Nazis.

Our genetic makeup determines whether we have genes for alcholism, drug addiction, schizophrenia and other ailments that we could pass onto our children.

If you want to build a "master race", then a DNA database would incredibly useful.

In short, they can go fuck themselves. And every free thinking person should say the same to them.

JohnM said...

Bert Rustle said... etc.

I don't disagree with your idea concerning framing. That's why I finished with I suspect the "used to" is significant.

bodo said...

I see a Labour minister (Lord Chancellor?) has "welcomed" the contribution of the judge. Isn't it strange they welcome some forms of political interference from the judiciary and/or police, but not others. It's a shame the BBC interviewer didn't have the curiosity to ask whether the judge was actually acting on the government's behalf, either explicitly or implicitly when he raised this topic.

Of course he carefully couched his argument in terms of "protecting ethnic minorities" -- and for some people that argument will clinch it. Others will be too afraid to oppose it for fear of being accused of racism.

You have to hand it to this government, they really are scarily efficient and ruthless about getting their own way.

Just another consumer said...

bert rustle

“The popular notion of 'spin', while used more broadly, often refers to the idea of framing.”

You might be interested in this:

www.krusch.com/articles/HowToFrame.pdf

Barry Krusch takes apart an article that appeared in Time magazine regarding the American Militia movement. He goes through it piece by piece showing the frames and how the article was spun.

Anonymous said...

"Bert Rustle said...
Anonymous Gabriel Oak10:18 AM wrote ... The nation-state, based on homogeneity...,."

I absolutely agree with this:

"The need to identify with others like oneself, and to be with one's own kind, is a major component of human nature and so ethnic identity is a powerful force in human affairs......

.....Salter draws out the implications, however politically incorrect, for immigration policies, citizenship law, affirmative action, multiculturalism, and other ways of allocating resources within and between states. There are constraints on how much diversity can be appreciated."

This is where Putnam's research goes as well of course, though he has not the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it apparently.

In the Telegraph the other day a social statistician noting that indigenous people would be in a minority in the second city within 20 years said that the notion that a common identity would develop was a "Utopian" idea which was "quite dangerous".

Bloody lethal to us I would say.

I read Boris Johnson's "Dream of Rome" recently talking of a common Euro identity. After an entertaining survey of the Empire Johson concluded that the construction of a common identity as had occured with Rome was not practicable. Whilst the institutions of the Empire were collective and designed to foster a common identity, the blood-fest of the Games for instance, the most obvious equivalent today, football, fosters rivalry and tribal loyalties. Nothing wrong with that of course within a framework of secure nation-states but there is simply no basis for a multi-cultural polity which disintegrates the building block of the nation state.

As for constraints on diversity being appreciated, I would say we are now beyond the bounds where it can be tolerated. There is no mileage in the LibLabCon one party state.

My hopes reside in the army, General Dannatt says that the "Judeo-Christian heritage" of the army must be retained, and so therefore the nation. The army believe rightly that the military covenant is broken and I look to the historical parallel where the New Model Army first purged Parliament, then executed the king, punished malignants and eventually expelled politicos altogether.

I hope that the BNP will have a significant inmfluence on the private soldiers and non-commissioned officers because otherwise it would be a right-wing coup. I hope patriotic forces can be rallied.

Unless something occurs on these lines I simply do not see a way through

Gabriel Oak

John Trenchard said...

Today's crime reports on a single blogpost

I've merely scoured all the BBC regional news websites - and i've restricted myself to just England - leaving out Wales and Scotland.

The sheer amount of crime I found was astonishing - and this is merely from todays reports.

Bert Rustle said...

Just another consumer 2:14 PM wrote “...Barry Krusch takes apart an article that appeared in Time magazine regarding the American Militia movement. He goes through it piece by piece showing the frames and how the article was spun. ...

Barry Krusch immediately (page 2) holes his own argument below the waterline by stating “... Thus, a reader might erroneously conclude that I am not only not Jewish, but that I am against Jews in general. Both assumptions are false. I am Jewish, and I am for Jews in general. ...

Whether he is a National Socialist, International Socialist, Zionist, or a lobotomised Benedictine Monk has absolutely no bearing on the validity of his argument or the veracity of his references.

It is by this hopeless method of argument that those in possession of empirical facts lose arguments to those who smear, name call, imply guilt by association and state blatant denials of observable, replicable phenomena.

When a liberal’s mouth drops open with “you can’t say that”, use the momentary silence in their typically emotive tirade of smear and denial to reload with another dose of medicine to cure them of the MultiCult virus.

Anonymous said...

".....reload with another dose of medicine to cure them of the MultiCult virus."

There's no substitute for Rule 303(7.62mm)

Gabriel Oak

Anonymous said...

He was (is?) a partner in the law firm Siefert, Sedley based in Tooks Court. Their two major cases in the late 70's were in the defence of Astrid Proll (Red Brigade)to remain in UK after what appeard to be a marriage of convenience, and in the call for indictment of the police for the 'murder/manslaughter' of Blair Peach.

Bert Rustle said...

Anonymous Gabriel Oak 2:23 PM wrote “... This is where Putnam's research goes as well of course, though he has not the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it apparently. ...

Pat Buchanan gives Putnam short shrift Diversity Is Our Destruction

Anonymous Gabriel Oak 2:23 PM wrote “... a social statistician noting ... a "Utopian" idea which was "quite dangerous". Laban covered this topic here . I believe my comments there are relevant here also. The blog of Harvard economics professor George Borjas addresses a quantitative lack of cross-generation Muslim integration in the UK here . where he links to an easy to read academic report
Are Muslim Immigrants Different in Terms of
Cultural Integration?
. They write ”We find that Muslims integrate less ... A Muslim born in the UK and having spent there more than 50 years shows a comparable level of probability of having a strong religious identity than a non-Muslim just arrived in the country...” Well worth a read as it contradicts other research which has had legacy media attention.

Anonymous Gabriel Oak 2:23 PM wrote “... I read Boris Johnson's "Dream of Rome ..." I respectfully suggest the links above would more informative and less verbose.

Anonymous Gabriel Oak 2:23 PM wrote “... My hopes reside in the army ... . I beg to differ. As with senior police officers, the senior military appear infected with the MultiCult virus. I see either tyranny or a peasants revolt.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Gabriel Oak 2:23 PM wrote “... My hopes reside in the army ... . I beg to differ. As with senior police officers, the senior military appear infected with the MultiCult virus. I see either tyranny or a peasants revolt.

That fact that Gabriel has no objection to the term used by the General - "Judeo-Christian heritage" - implies to me that Gabriel and the General are both infected with the MC virus already.

Anonymous said...

interesting developments, to say the least, in Switzerland

http://www.typo3start.ch/sites/ausschaffungd/

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070901/D8RCI31O0.html

"The nationalist Swiss People's Party is proposing a deportation policy that anti-racism campaigners say evokes Nazi-era practices. Under the plan, entire families would be expelled if their children are convicted of a violent crime, drug offenses or benefits fraud.

The party is trying to collect the 100,000 signatures needed to force a referendum on the issue. If approved in a referendum, the law would be the only one of its kind in Europe"

Anonymous said...

links corrected.

here
and
here

Dave said...

They can ID you if they have your close relatives DNA. So this is all a mute point, they only need to have a few million people on record for a quasi national DNA ID system anyway.

Anonymous said...

In Britain today a gang of men can break into your house, beat you with a sledgehammer and drive off with your car.

Somehow, I don't see that sort of thing happening in "concealed carry" places like Texas.

JuliaM said...

"They can ID you if they have your close relatives DNA...this is all a mute point, they only need to have a few million people on record for a quasi national DNA ID system anyway."

A lot fewer than that, in Norfolk and parts of Essex!

Sorry, someone had to make the obvious gag...