Friday, April 18, 2008

A fault line

Dr Alan Carling of Bradford Uni is an old leftie with an interest in globalisation and identity (he's also a Bradford City supporter so he can't be all bad).

But he doesn't seem to be an optimist :

Bradford has slipped into a political vacuum where debate on community cohesion is stifled, allowing "fascism and Islamism" to thrive, according to academic Dr Alan Carling.

He says the city is in danger of becoming "a patchwork quilt of rival ethnic fiefdoms" that makes it a "fault line" in the clash between cultures.

The former chairman of the Bradford University Programme for a Peaceful City group said politicians, charities and academics who remained silent risked helping extremist groups split the city.

But he said if the divisions were confronted now, Bradford could become a worldwide example on how two cultures could coexist.

Dr Carling, writing in the March edition of the Urban Spaces journal, said: "In the post-9/11 world, Bradford looks like one of the fault lines in a supposed global confrontation between 'Islam' and 'the West'.

"The scale and nature of the challenges faced by the district make it one of the key places in Britain, and possibly in Europe, in which the relationships between populations of Muslim and non-Muslim background in the West are likely to be worked out in the future, either for good or for ill."

He said "white flight" from Bradford's inner-city wards showed clear evidence of an increase in segregation in the city since 1991. Statistical analysis shows that about 75 per cent of Muslims would now need to move to white neighbourhoods to get an equal distribution of ethnic communities in each.

While 20.5 per cent of residents in the city were Muslim in 2001, the Bradford Health Academy predicts that figure will rise to 28 per cent by 2011. A recent study by Leeds University suggests the proportion of minorities will reach 38.2 per cent by 2030, including 31.9 per cent from south Asia.

"It would be astonishing if a cultural shift of this potential magnitude were to take place without some friction and challenges of adjustment," said Dr Carling.

He believes the dominance of Pakistani Muslims in the city has meant that instead of its becoming a multicultural community, as in London where no minority dominates, Bradford has become bi-cultural.

Because of the Pakistani population's desire to create "ethnic colonies", he said, the best Bradford could hope for in the long term was accommodation rather than integration.

But he said the "unpalatable truth" was that up to 18,000 citizens of Bradford had voted for the BNP – they "have chosen over the last few years to step across the line that has defined the boundary of reputable politics ever since the defeat of the Nazis 60 years ago".

Likewise, the popularity of jihadi Islamic groups in the city was further promoting polarisation.

"The presence of these authoritarian groups carry especial dangers in places like Bradford," Dr Carling said. "Their messages are likely to find some resonance within existing attitudes and social conditions. In addition, there is a particular danger these two political currents will feed off each other."


Hmm. It just goes to show that even a good left-liberal will see what's in front of his eyes, given enough time. Notice his take on 'ethnic colonies' is pretty close to the 'colonisation' thesis of the 2001 Race Relations Review. And his 'white flight' thesis directly contradicts his former colleague Dr Steven Ludicrous 'Ludi' Simpson. What with him and Marie Macey, the right-on Uni is getting all realist.

I can't find the Urban Spaces journal anywhere though. Anyone got a copy ?



UPDATE - the "Parade of Celebration", timed for St George's Day and designed as a show of unity for all Bradfordians and routed through Girlington and Manningham, scene of the 2001 riots, has been cancelled at short notice for 'health and safety' reasons. Not quite cancelled, to be fair - they can celebrate on 1st July if they wish.

Councillor Qasim Khan (Lib Dem, Manningham) said the original intention of the parade was to mark St George's Day and bring the Manningham and Girlington communities together after the 2001 riots. He said "It was basically to cover the areas which had been affected by the riots. It was all about bringing communities together," he said. "All the schools had prepared flags and will be obviously upset to hear the news. About 2,000 schoolchildren were due to take part plus members of the general public. There could have been five or 10,000 people."

Coun Khan said senior police officers had now objected on safety grounds and had proposed an alternative route which had been rejected by many of those taking part causing it to be cancelled. A West Yorkshire Police spokesman admitted the neighbourhood policing team had been involved in the "early stages" of planning the parade but denied it was a police event. She said: "A member of the Neighbourhood Policing Team was involved in the early stages of planning a Parade of Celebration. This is being dealt with by a group of community members, and is not a police event. Routes were offered to allow a smaller St George's Day Parade to go ahead, but these were rejected by the group of organisers, who are seeking a more substantial parade to celebrate community cohesion in a post-riot Bradford. The parade has not been cancelled but has been postponed."


Hmm. It looks as if St George is being co-opted to serve an agenda he might have raised an eyebrow at, but I have no real problem with that. The more little Muslim kids brandishing the red cross shield of England, the better. I wonder why the police and council knocked it on the head ?

UPDATE2 - I believe this is the sort of thing that Ann Cryer gets justifiably cross about.

26 comments:

Gallimaufry said...

Try Urban Studies
http://usj.sagepub.com/content/vol45/issue3/

JuliaM said...

"...the best Bradford could hope for in the long term was accommodation rather than integration."

With that kind of defeatist attitude, it's no wonder we have trouble in store..

Sgt Troy said...

"Because of the Pakistani population's desire to create "ethnic colonies", he said, the best Bradford could hope for in the long term was accommodation rather than integration."

A craven Buiterist who has not the courage nor wit to see the danger of primitive alien colonisation. Buiter's principles should be applied to him and he should be exiled, for treachery and cowardice.

"But he said the "unpalatable truth" was that up to 18,000 citizens of Bradford had voted for the BNP – they "have chosen over the last few years to step across the line that has defined the boundary of reputable politics ever since the defeat of the Nazis 60 years ago"."

BNP voters are not "Nazis", they are indigenous people desperately concerned at the way our country is sliding down the tube. It usually appears with these liberal tossers that the only history they have done was the Nazis at GCSE, A-level and university. If all you know of history is the nazis then you know Scottish Football Association about history essentially. That they actually KNOW something about the history of this country is past praying for with most of this rabble of course. The Buiterist fraud, lackey and running dog Brotton is proof positive of this.

This confederacy of dunces see WW2 as an unnuanced struggle against fascism which is an historical absurdity(they apparently class the indigenous population's desire to hang on to Yorkshire as "lebensraum").

Bob Doe(234 squadron RAF) was a very successful and skillful Spitfire pilot, who I believe shot down 15 enemy aircraft during the epic struggle of that 1940 summer. When asked what motivated him he did not come out with a jaw-cracking leftist mouthful about the "anti-fascist struggle". What he actually said was that he flew for his country and so his Mum, in her back garden, would be safe. So this liberal retard can stick that up his pipe and smoke it. Wish I had him in my sights with 8 Brownings!! That'd learn him!

So anyway how has Bob Doe's skill and courage been rewarded by a grateful nation? Why the liberals have opened up the countryfor Pakistani colonisation! Thanks a million.

Rob said...

I'm amazed he mentioned the Islamist parties. The usual leftie would scream about the BNP and portray the other side as helpless, charming victims.

Still, better late than never, though it is too late, of course. I wonder if he and the others feel at all guilty? I.e. guilty about something they are actually responsible for, rather than a general "mea culpa" regarding climate change, Africa, poverty, etc etc.

Rob said...

Oh, and for "accomodation" read "appeasement and eventual surrender".

Sgt Troy said...

"Alan Carling first came to the District in 1978 to take up a post as a Lecturer in Sociology at the University of Bradford, and has lived and worked here ever since."

God help us! Sociology - unmitigated quackery in spades. His pic has an unmanly and inane aspect. He must be a prime driveller.

rob

"Oh, and for "accomodation" read "appeasement and eventual surrender"."

Quite - he should google up Ethelred the Unready, I doubt he knows a blind thing about English history.

"Unreade" was apparently a play upon his Ethelred's name; "noble counsel", which the wits turned into "no counsel".

So would Carling Black Label(complete piss) advocate the surrender of the whole of West Yorks in due course? Of course he would, damn him! And we are expected to stump up vast sums of Danegeld in transfer payments to to give up what is our own. "Once you have paid the Dane-geld. You never get rid of the Dane" - wrote Kipling who knew a thing or two.

dearieme said...

On this issue, the Left has been in power for decades, even when it has not been in office. And this is what it has given us.

staybryte said...

Er, sgt troy

I may regret this, but who and what is Buiter and Buiterism? I did a google and came across some LSE economist called Willem Buiter with a very slappable face, but what should we have against him?

LABAN - if this is off topic or out of order I apologise.

Gallimaufry said...

Thanks staybryte for asking the question I dared not ask. Advance apologies to those in the know for my ignorance.

Sergeant Troy: 11th Dragoon Guards said...

"Willem Buiter with a very slappable face....."

Indeed very slappable.....this gem from Buiter repays careful reading, staybryte

"I reject that view. The wellbeing of the existing resident population is no more, and no less, relevant than the wellbeing of any potential immigrant to the UK, wherever in the world he or she may be. I recognise private property rights. My home is my castle and I can deny entry into it to anybody at any time. I don’t recognise national property rights. A country is not like a private home. A country is an open club."

http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2008/04/imagine-theres-no-country/#more-178

Reason I've characterised it as "Buiterism" is firstly because of his eminence, as it were - he was on the holy of holies, the BOE interest rate setting committee. And mainly because he's actually come out and said it - they want to take our country away. He advocates kicking patriots out of the country if he can, exile to the Outer Hebrides as a second best option.

This is quite a lot to have against him. He wouldn't look so cocky if he was doing the Newgate hornpipe!

I raged against this miserable specimen on the piracy thread below.

staybryte said...

Thanks sgt troy

The text you cite from his ramblings rings a bell now, think I've seen Laban refer to it on these august pages.

Slappable is as slappable does it seems.

nightjack said...

Every Islamic Girls College that you see is a sign that at least a school full of local "persons of Pakistani heritage" want no part of integration. Self ghettoisation is a defence mechanism against the threat to the established patterns of power and influence in their community

The truth, I think, is that over a whole lot of time, the traditional Asian communities in the UK will fragment over issues of strict observance and interpretation. There may well come a time when the bearded salwar kameez wearer will look as strange and anachronistic as Amish or Orthodox Jews.

Basically we have to wait for the pressure of living as a minority community breaks down and fragments them. It will happen whether we or they like it or not. Our mass culture really is poison to traditional South Asian values.

It will take a while and it will be messy but change is going to come.

Sgt Troy said...

"Basically we have to wait for the pressure of living as a minority community breaks down and fragments them."

I disagree, in Bradford 75% of the marriages are between first cousins, you cannot get more tightly knit than that.

Social control is exerted by the threat of "honour" violence, bounty hunters, rejection of and threats to apostates, the power of the mosque and madrassa. The extensive electoral fraud shows how collectively they can act and how little the fundamental principles of a free society mean to them; including freedom of speech and freedom of religion of course.

They are not really living in Britain, they are living in Pakistani enclaves - hence "seperate but parallel lives". There is really very little that the indigenous people of the country have in common with them.

This is an alien colonisation event - it must have been like getting blood out of a stone for Carling to have dragged that admission out of himself, seriously gut-wrenching stuff, the antithesis of all that libs have deluded themselves with

nightjack said...

Sgt. Troy, short term you are dead right. Its going to be very messy but long term, the young folk are going to flake off bit by bit.

It will take decades and more but it will happen, it always does.

What we are seeing now is the heat from friction

againstthewall said...

Nightjack you just dont get it. When the chips are down do you seriously expect a subcon to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you against his own kind? And do you seriously expect the hardcore subcons to permit their youth to renege? They are not white liberals and they ARE racially aware? They despise us (rightly) and are on oa mission of conquest.

nightjack said...

againstthewall

I am a cop, I don't expect him or her to stand by me. However, I do expect an increasing number of them to stand against Daddy Dearest.

We are fun, sex, drugs, money, freedom, fashion, booze, fags, clubs, pubs, porn, love, lust, promiscuity, shopping, irresponsibility, disrespect, dissent and not having to pray every day. In the long term, Asian Dad hasn't got a hope in hell and he knows it.

I say again, in the long term. Short term, we have a world of pain and problems. Long term, decadence wins every single time.

Don't believe me? Ask an orthodox Jew.

Anonymous said...

nightjack, Orthodox Jews are a totally different group of people to Pakistanis. You can't assume both will be affected in the same way by social challenges.


I think we are sitting on a powderkeg, it only needs one crazy white guy with a basic+ knowledge of chemistry to have his family killed in a terrorist event for a revenge attack to be sparked. And if that happens the Muslims are not gonna lie down and take it, it will escalate massively.

Anonymous said...

Nightjack - why is it going to happen now, this decline in muslim numbers?

Pretty much 60 years ago there were no muslims in Britain, now its 1.5 million. Thats the top of the curve then, now its downhill for them.

I wont be expecting to see a headline somewhere saying Britain now has 1.6 or 2 million muslims or whatever. And if I do am I then to believe you when you say they are going to flake off, thistime. I fear their numbers will keep going up and up, immigration, births plus a few converts and the likes of you will keep saying the great flaking off is around the corner.

Where are all the high profile celebrity muslim apostates in the west:

Hirsin Ali - spending her whole life under armed guard.

Tariq Ali - spouting his marxist crap.

Salman Rushdie - enough said.

Thats some role models for those young muslims to follow.

Juliam - Its not a defeatist attitude. I fear you are yourself giving a liberal line here. That all we need is a bit more integration and everything will be OK. That would work if the numbers were tiny but they are not.

JuliaM said...

Juliam - Its not a defeatist attitude. I fear you are yourself giving a liberal line here. That all we need is a bit more integration and everything will be OK.

Not at all. I'm not saying I have the answer, in fact, I've not seen anyone yet who does.

I'm simply saying that 'the best Bradford could hope for' is a defeatist attitude. And it IS...

sgt troy said...

"We are fun, sex, drugs, money, freedom, fashion, booze, fags, clubs, pubs, porn, love, lust, promiscuity, shopping, irresponsibility, disrespect, dissent and not having to pray every day."

= radicalisation in prison, .

They are Pakistanis at heart, nightjack, they might slough off from the observances of their warrior faith, but they will return.

It is also essential, I think, to appreciate that the reckless money-lending regime which finances the hedonism is heading right down the tube. Only today we see yet more crates of whiskey supplied to the alchy, £50 billions of tax-payer backed gov't bonds swopped for questionable mortgage "assets". We stand on the cusp of a debacle, this is going to change everything. The simple fact of the matter is that we do not have the economic base to sustain the population we have now in the style of life to which it has become accustomed, we certainly can't afford the massive financial cost of Pakistani colonies.

"It will take decades and more but it will happen, it always does."

Just because the Huguenots integrated, for example, it does not follow that this lot will. The Huguenots were skilled, Protestant when such things mattered, indistinguishable over time.

I don't accept the Jewish analogy either: they were effectively European, had a long intellectual tradition, there are common religious elements, their numbers were small compared to the post 45 invasion.

Just because something has always happened in the past, relatively successfully, that does not mean that there is some univeral law in operation here.

In any event there might be twice in 10 years time. Numbers are critical, they establish their own momentum. The age structure of their population is alarmingly youthful.

Carling can see this is colonisation, which does suprise me, and he's right.

Anonymous said...

Re the Huguenots. I read somewhere that there were only 30,000 of them in total and they didnt all arrive at once. Racially and religiously they were a good fit.

Though to be fair, British population was much smaller then.

How many non-white, non-Christians do we import now, its got to be a heck of a lot more than 30,000 a year.

Juliam - I wasnt having a go, I know we are on the same side.

againstthewall said...

Nightjack I must disagree. Longterm decadence loses.

Also not sure what you intend by your closing remark. From where I stand Jews are the most powerful minority group in the UK. Far more influential than the poor old Brits who outnumber them 150-1 (give or take)

Sgt Troy said...

"Hmm. It looks as if St George is being co-opted to serve an agenda he might have raised an eyebrow at, but I have no real problem with that. The more little Muslim kids brandishing the red cross shield of England, the better."

Seems to me laban that this goes to the heart of the illogicality of your position. Your splendid, and very useful, site seeks, as I understand it, to wean liberals away from their folly. I'd say on that point that we don't have the time to pussy-foot around anymore.

However in the above quote you seem to be hankering after integration. Even Carling Black Label has now recognised the futility of this dream - Muslim kids running around with a Crusader symbol is surely just that. So the options then are surely either "accomodation"(capitulation) or resistance with a view to repatriation.

Sgt Troy said...

"againstthewall said...
Nightjack I must disagree. Longterm decadence loses."

Absolutely correct - Livy, deeply affected by the demise of the Roman Republic, wrote: "Of late years wealth has made us greedy, and self-indulgence has brought us, through every form of sensual excess, to be, if I may so put, in love with death both individual and collective."

I guess the purpose of his Histories was to try and recapture the iron Republican virtue of eraly Rome, he gave of his best to save what he loved. How many of us can say the same?

sgt troy said...

On the Huguenot point the poplation of England and Wales, as estimated by Gregory King in 1688, was of the order of 5 millions.

I've seen figures of 50000 quoted for that immigration, ie around 1% in total - although obviously it was concntrated on London and the SE

sgt troy said...

A couple of years ago the Independent, a truly awful shrieking rag, was pleased to publish a multi-coloured map of paradise of diversity Britain - with suitable gooey commentary as is only to be expected from those liberal loons.

Actually the bits they had coloured in green(as in Pakistani Islamic) reminded me quite strongly of the maps in Morris' "Age of Arthur", based on archaelogical evidence, of the Germanic takeover and conquest of much of Britain. In fact glancing at the book as I type I see that one of the maps is headed "Partition". We haven't got to this as yet though obviously it is implicit in Carling Black Label's(worst piss ever concocted) notion of "accomodation".

Funnily enough some people at the time weren't overly persuaded by the same argument then deployed that these immigrants would do the work the natives wouldn't:

"Then all the councillors, together with that proud tyrant Gurthrigern [Vortigern], the British king, were so blinded, that, as a protection to their country, they sealed its doom by inviting in among them (like wolves into the sheep-fold), the fierce and impious Saxons, a race hateful both to God and men, to repel the invasions of the northern nations. Nothing was ever so pernicious to our country, nothing was ever so unlucky. What palpable darkness must have enveloped their minds--darkness desperate and cruel! Those very people whom, when absent, they dreaded more than death itself, were invited to reside, as one may say, under the selfsame roof."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/gildas.html

In any event the Romano-British Celtic language and culture disappeared from the lands that became England, the fate of many Britons was slavery. This I feel is the best historical parallel to hand.